OORDELEN (v.)

BEURTEILEN (deu.) · GIUDICARE (ita.) · JUDGE (TO) (eng.) · JUDICARE (lat.) · JUDICIEREN (deu.) · JUGER (fra.) · URTEILEN (deu.)
TERM USED IN EARLY TRANSLATIONS
/ · BEURTEILEN (deu.) · JUDGE (TO) (eng.) · JUDICARE (lat.) · URTEILEN (deu.)
BLANC, Jan, Peindre et penser la peinture au XVIIe siècle : la théorie de l'art de Samuel van Hoogstraten, Berne, Peter Lang, 2008.

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Quotation

Hoovaerdighlick neus-wijse en koppighe menschen, die met een smaedighe verwonderingh het ghene hun niet aen en staet vaerdighlick veroordeelen ende verwerpen, behoeven sich insgelijks daer mede niet te quellen dat maghtige schatrijcke liefhebbers weynigh daer nae schijnen te vraeghen wat het hun kost, als sy slechts haeren lust moghen boeten; gemerckt dese dinghen gheacht behooren te worden nae het verghenoeghen de Konst-kenners daer in scheppen. Hy moet een dieper insicht in dese dingen hebben, die daer wel van meynt te oordeelen. Een Konst-gheleerd oogh kan maer alleen bespeuren wat daer in te vinden is.

[Suggested translation, Marije Osnabrugge:] Haughty, pedantic and stubborn men, who with slandering astonishment skillfully condemn and dismiss that which they do not like, should likewise not torture themselves [NDR: about the fact] that powerful wealthy Amateurs do hardly ask what it costs them, when they only may feed their desire; considering that it should be esteemed after the pleasure that Connoisseurs take in it. He, who intends to judge it well, should have a deeper insight in these things. An Art-educated eye can only detect what can be found in it.

term translated by / in JUNIUS, Franciscus, De pictura veterum libri tres, Amsterdam, Joannes Blaeu, 1637., p. 46 in JUNIUS, Franciscus, The Painting of the Ancients, in Three Bookes : declaring by Historicall Observations and Examples, the Beginning, Progresse, and Consummation of that most Noble Art. And how those Ancient Artificers attained to their still so much admired Excellencie. Written first in latine by Franciscus Junius, F. F. And now by him englished, with some Additions and Alterations, trad. par JUNIUS, Franciscus, London, Richard Hodgkinsonne, 1638., p. 79-80
term translated by / in JUNIUS, Franciscus, De pictura veterum libri tres, Amsterdam, Joannes Blaeu, 1637., p. 46 in JUNIUS, Franciscus, The Painting of the Ancients, in Three Bookes : declaring by Historicall Observations and Examples, the Beginning, Progresse, and Consummation of that most Noble Art. And how those Ancient Artificers attained to their still so much admired Excellencie. Written first in latine by Franciscus Junius, F. F. And now by him englished, with some Additions and Alterations, trad. par JUNIUS, Franciscus, London, Richard Hodgkinsonne, 1638., p. 79-80

Conceptual field(s)

SPECTATEUR → jugement

Quotation

[...] even alsoo plaghten dieghene scherper te oordeelen, dewelcke daer toe versocht worden; sy vereyschen de waere kracht der Konste, sonder nae ’t uyterlicke opproncksel ende ick en wete niet wat voor aentreckelicke nieuwigheden om te sien; soo ghebeurt het oock doorgaens henen dat een naukeurigh oordeeler de gebreken van stonden aen meteen halve ooghe weet uyt te vinden; en wat daer erghens in ’t werck misprijselick is, plaght met eenen oock den luster van de prijs-waerdighe dinghen te verdonckeren; voornamelick in die Konsten, dewelcke niet soo seer tot noodsaeckelick ghebruyck gheoeffent worden, als tot enckel vermaeck van onse curieuse nieus-ghierige sinnen.

[Suggested translation, Marije Osnabrugge:] …similarly, those tend to judge more sharply, who are asked to do so; they demand the true power of Art, without paying attention to the external embellishments and I do not know what kind of attractive novelties; as such it also commonly happens that a precise judge can immediately spot the flaws in the blink of an eye; and that which is to be disapproved somewhat in the work, tends to simultaneously darken the delight of praiseworthy things; mainly in those Arts, which are not so much practiced for necessary use, but rather for the sole entertainment of our curious inquisitive spirits.

term translated by JUDICARE in JUNIUS, Franciscus, De pictura veterum libri tres, Amsterdam, Joannes Blaeu, 1637., p. 112
term translated by JUDGE (TO) in JUNIUS, Franciscus, The Painting of the Ancients, in Three Bookes : declaring by Historicall Observations and Examples, the Beginning, Progresse, and Consummation of that most Noble Art. And how those Ancient Artificers attained to their still so much admired Excellencie. Written first in latine by Franciscus Junius, F. F. And now by him englished, with some Additions and Alterations, trad. par JUNIUS, Franciscus, London, Richard Hodgkinsonne, 1638., p. 193-194

Conceptual field(s)

SPECTATEUR → jugement

Quotation

De menichvuldighe aendachtighe beschouwinge der Konste plaght eyndelick in ons ghemoed soo vele te weghe te brenghen, dat wy door de gheduyrigheydt deser oeffeninghe bequaem worden ghemaeckt om van allerley Konstighe wercken met een seldsaem gemack en met een onbedrieghelicke vaerdigheyt te oordeelen, daerom heeft oock Dionysius Longinus {De sublimi orat. 4.} dese gemackelicke vaerdigheyd in het oordeelen met groot recht d’aller laetste vrucht van een veelvoudighe ervaerenheyd ghenaemt.

[Suggested translation, Marije Osnabrugge:] In the end, the manifold careful study of Art tends to stimulate so much in our mind, that through the duration of this practice we become able to judge all sorts of Artful works with a rare ease and with an undeceiving ability, because of this Dionyisus Longinus {…} has with great reason called this convenient ability in judging the very last fruit of the manifold experience.

term translated by JUDICARE in JUNIUS, Franciscus, De pictura veterum libri tres, Amsterdam, Joannes Blaeu, 1637., p. 216
term translated by JUDGE (TO) in JUNIUS, Franciscus, The Painting of the Ancients, in Three Bookes : declaring by Historicall Observations and Examples, the Beginning, Progresse, and Consummation of that most Noble Art. And how those Ancient Artificers attained to their still so much admired Excellencie. Written first in latine by Franciscus Junius, F. F. And now by him englished, with some Additions and Alterations, trad. par JUNIUS, Franciscus, London, Richard Hodgkinsonne, 1638., p. 347

Conceptual field(s)

SPECTATEUR → jugement

Quotation

[…] In dienmen andere haer oordeel ondersoecke, soo komt te vooren niet alleen den grooten Prijs ende waerde die dese dingen [antique sculpture, ndr.] altijts by de kenders in oude tijden gehadt hebben, en oock nu ter tijt noch hebben; als ’t eerste wert getuyght van Cicero, Plinius, ende andere schrijvers van geloof, door ’t verhael van dinghen by na ongheloofflijck, ende het tweede leert de daghelijckse ervarentheyt: Maer komt daer toe oock de eenparighe toestemmingh van Raphael d’Vrbijn, Michiel angelo Bonarotti, en al de treffelijcke Meesters: die als bekent is, dit niet alleen met woorden rondelijck verklaert, maer oock metter daet betoont hebben; haer heele werck stellende na desen richt-snoer: Ja soo verre, datse dickwils niet ontsiende, heele stucken in hun wercken in te voegen by na Roovers zijn geworden, in plaets van navolgers. En van geen ander verstant zijn de Liefhebbers; als die gemeenlijck voor ’t beste van hun wercken dat oordeelen, het welck meest heeft van die oude Voor-beelden. Selfs die van Venetien, die nochtans altijdt meest in ’t Coloreren ende meesterlijckheydt van het Pinceel als inde Teyckeningh hebben uytgemunt, konnen hier toe strecken voor ghetuyghen; aenghesien Mategna, Palma hier uyt geseyt werden, veel geleert en gevordert te hebben.

[suggested translation, Marije Osnabrugge:] […] When one investigates the judgement of others, not only the high Price and value that these things [ndr: antique sculpture] have also had for the connoisseurs in the ancient times, and still have nowadays; firstly it was argued by Cicero, Pliny, and other authors of standing, from the story of things almost unbelievable, and secondly the daily experience teaches it: But the unequivocal agreement of Raphael of Urbino, Michelangelo Buonarroti, and all the powerful Masters: who – as is known – have not only directly declared this with words, but also shown with action; forming their whole oeuvre after this guideline: Yes to such a degree, that they often were not stopped from incorporating complete pieces in their works, almost becoming Thiefs, instead of imitators. And the Amateurs are of the same mind; as they commonly judge those parts of their works as the best, which resemble those old Examples the most. Even those of Venice, who normally have excelled most in the Coloring and virtuosity of the Brush then in the Design, may serve as witnesses of this; as Mantegna, Palma are said to have learned and taken much from it.

Conceptual field(s)

SPECTATEUR → jugement

Quotation

Soo plegen verstandige Schilders haer in desen, van eenige behulp-middelen te versien, die haer in het oordeelen van hunne wercken eenighsins te bate mochten komen: {Behulpmiddelen om van sijn dingen wel te oordeelen.} Hier toe gebruyckten sommige den Spiegel, in welcke sy haere dingen als in een tegenstrijdige ende omgekeerden stand besagen; invoegen sy haer oordeel door het beschouwen van twee onderscheyde Vertooningen, op den Toetsteen brachten. ’t Is niet sonder reden datmen door dat middel de fauten zijner wercken kan naspeuren; want door dien omkeeringh van stant, veroorsaeckt dat de eyge Liefde omtrent onse Wercken niet in haer volle kracht en kan herschen, soo komen wy die aen te sien als het Werck van eenen anderen Werck-Meester, in welcke men (gelijck d’ondervindinge leert) altijdt veel gebreecken vinden kan: gelijck wy dat noch verder in ons tweede Boeck sullen aenraecken. Andere keeren hare stucken somtijts om, en sien die t’onderste boven, om alsoo uyt te vorssen of hunne dingen haer behoorlijcke Teyckeningh ende kracht hebben, ende behouwen: Gelijck dat mede door de Lijsten aende stucken te doen dickwils ontdeckt wort;

[suggested translation, Marije Osnabrugge:] As such wise Painters tend to supply her with some aids, which might somewhat be of benefit for judging their works: {Tools that aid to judge one’s own work well.} Some used a mirror for this, in which they observed their things in a contrasting and opposite position; as such they tested their judgement by observing two different displays. It is not without reason that one can detect the mistakes in his work by that means, because through the reversal of the position, it causes that one’s own Love for our works cannot reign in its full power, so we get to so it as if it were the work of another Artisan, in which one (like experience teaches us) can always find flaws: as we will touch upon this further in our second Book. Others sometimes turn their pieces around, to see it upside down, to investigate this way whether their things have a proper Design and power, and maintain it: As this is also often discovered because by placing the Frames on the works;

Conceptual field(s)

SPECTATEUR → jugement

Quotation

Resteert nu noch, om dit Capittel te besluyten, dat men wete hoemen sich in het oordeelen en beschouwen van andere Luyden Wercken moet dragen: {Hoemen hem in ’t besien van andere Luyden Konst sal dragen om wel te oordeelen.} en daer toe salmen kortelijck in ’t algemeen aenmercken, datmen de kleyne gebreecken en pickediljes niet al te naeuw examineeren, noch te seer berispen en moet; noch de groote misslagen niet te licht door de Vingeren sien: Want soo een Schilder hem hier in onvoorsichtigh komt te dragen, soo loopt hy gevaer om by alle andere veracht, en seer gehaet te werden.

[suggested translation, Marije Osnabrugge:] To finish this Chapter is left that one knows who one should behave in the judging and observing of the works of other men: {How one should behave in the observation of the Art of other men to judge them well.} and for this one will briefly point out in general, that one should not examine the small flaws and trifles all too closely, nor condemn them too much; nor too easily turn a blind eye to the big mistakes: Because if a Painter behaves himself careless in this matter, he runs the risk to become despised by all others and very hated.

examineeren

Conceptual field(s)

SPECTATEUR → jugement

Quotation

Doch 't zy gy de dingen wilt eeven aenwijzen, of ten netsten uitvoeren, zoo laet doch de hand en 't penseel uw oog en oordeel gehoorzaemen, op dat uwe wijze van handeling met het natuerlijke in zijnen aert over een drage.

[BLANC J, 2006, p. 370] Mais que vous vouliez à peine indiquer les choses ou que vous vouliez les faire le plus nettement possible, il faut que votre main et votre pinceau obéissent à votre œil et à votre jugement, afin que votre façon de [ndr : faire] se conforme au caractère du naturel.

Conceptual field(s)

L’ARTISTE → qualités
MANIÈRE ET STYLE → le faire et la main